♪♪ Scott: Representing California's 5th Senatorial District, Susan Talamantes Eggman has a long career in public service, from serving in the US Army, to becoming the City of Stockton's first Latina councilmember and in her 11th year in the legislature.

Senator Eggman has built a reputation on taking on tough issues and seeing them through.

Senator Eggman joins us today to share her story and her views on the issues facing California.

Senator, with such a varied career ranging from agriculture to academia, how is it that you define yourself?

Susan: What?

That's a hard question when we start, uh, off.

Uh, but I guess-- Scott: We were told... we were told that you've got broad shoulders and can handle it.

Susan: My, uh, my... my twelve-year-old calls me -- my superhero name is "“The Handler.

"” "Don't worry, mama can handle it."

So, that's my superhero name is "“The Handler.

"” Uh, I guess one thing to just describe me is that I...

I just hope people, uh, think that I'm a good person and did my part to keep this wheel, this world spinning on its axis.

Although I will say, as a hospice social worker, I spend a lot of time with people dying and I've done a lot of work in that space.

So, I think a lot about, uh, obituaries and what's on tombstones and despite whatever else I've done, I have-- I've always said I want on my tombstone: "She could cook."

Scott: Uh, yes.

And... and we're going to come back to that cause we hear you're famous for your sourdough bread.

But I want to take you back to the beginning.

And you come from an agricultural family.

And I'm curious what experiences from your early years with your family on that almond orchard draw -- do you draw on or... or come to mind for you as you're making policy or you're fighting for the interests of your constituents?

Susan: You know, I hope, um, I think as many of us get older, we feel like we are becoming our parents.

Uh, and I...

I certainly wish mine were still living so I could...

I could, uh, I could have, uh, conversations with them in my... in my adult self.

Um, my family has an interesting history just in my... my dad's family came from kind of a, uh, "Grapes of Wrath" story up out of the south.

And my, uh, my mom's family came, um, from Mexico.

Um, and so they married in the '‘50s, both of them with a very limited education, um, and high degrees of poverty.

But just with the real, you know, they got married in the... in the early '‘50s and a real time, I think of... of, uh, of hope, um, of if you worked hard, that you could make anything happen.

Um, and this idea that... that my, again, my dad was a man who didn't really, uh, read or write, but he loved agriculture.

He loved animals.

He was on the, you know, like he could -- if some -- we got roses in... in -- someone got roses, my dad could make them plant and grow.

So, I guess it's just the real, uh, what I got from that time on the farm was kind of you get out of life what you put into it.

Like, literally in agriculture, right?

What you put into it is... is what is going to come back.

Um, and that we're all, uh, we're all responsible for... for each other.

Uh, and that... that, again, that... that hard work and honest handshake, um, and caring about other people are... are kind of what... what defines life and... and family... Scott: You... you... you talk about that your father, uh, came from kind of a "Grapes of Wrath" story from, I assume another part of the country out here looking for opportunity.

Um, he's passed on as has your mother, but if... if they could see you today, um, what would they think about the journey you've made?

Susan: Uh, that'll make me cry.

Uh, so my... my dad, uh, God rest his soul, lived long enough.

Uh, he died my first year in the assembly, uh, and he was so proud that I, uh, that I was at that time I was chairing the agriculture committee.

Uh, so he was... he was very, very proud of that.

Um, so, uh, they would be -- he would... he would make everyone call me a Senator.

Um, he had trouble with words sometimes so, you know, he would, uh, he would make a joke about it.

Uh, my... my mom would just be, uh, beside herself.

My mom, uh, when she - when -- uh, she loved -- so, my grandparents became, uh, citizens so they could vote for JFK.

So, politics were really important in my family.

Not as uh... uh... you know, not -- people weren't active or running for office.

They -- that... that would've been just so tremendous for my mom.

But she loved politics.

She, um, uh, she... when she was dying, I'm like, "Mom, what was the best part of your life?"

I'll never forget, she said, "Oh honey, those Watergate trials.

It just felt like I was right there."

But she was glued.

So, I just grew up very much with, um, understanding that government was there for us and... and... and... and... and for the people, and public education, and public libraries, and all of that kind of that... that public good that goes forward.

Uh, that their daughter could be a part of that I think it would just be, uh... uh, they... they... they would be incredibly, uh, proud.

And I... and I...

I carry that with me every day.

And it certainly makes me when I walk into this building, uh, look up and think, you know, I mean, only in America could... could something like this happen.

And, um, I guess just the huge responsibility I feel to use my time, um, as wisely as possible.

Scott: Right.

Tell us about your family today.

Susan: Okay.

Uh, so my family today, as I define it.

But so, I...

I... in... in the military I met, uh, my partner and then became my wife, uh, Renee, uh, 39 years.

So, we've been together 39 years.

Scott: Congratulations!

Susan: Why thank you very much.

Um, it wasn't legal to marry until, uh, later.

And so, we had our, I think seventh year officially married and before that we were domestic partners.

Um, and then in my...

So, I ran for Stockton City Council-- and I should say, my mom was just so proud that I got a PhD and now as a professor, right.

That was, I mean, she was very, very excited about that.

And I didn't run for office for my first time until she had passed away in, uh... uh, the year... the year I did -- I finished my... my... my doctoral dissertation.

Uh, she passed away in 2002.

And I ran for office in 2000 -- I served first term in 2006.

Anyway, so she... she wasn't there for that, but she would have been so proud.

But I was also her caregiver, so I couldn't have run while she was alive.

So, it was funny.

But anyway, my... my wife's, uh, sister, um, my very first year in the... in the legislature, uh, developed-- it was... it was this time of year actually, because we were voting on the budget, 2013.

I was in the office with Nancy Skinner.

My wife texted me and said, "My sister texted me and said, she, uh, she wants me to take her to the hospital.

She thinks she's dying."

I told her, "She's crazy.

She's kind of a hypochondriac.

You don't have healthcare insurance."

Anyway, she took her to the emergency room and in fact, she was, uh, dying with a, uh, very, uh, aggressive form of cancer, uh, and she died, uh, August 11th, uh, two months later.

Uh, and the next day, her, uh, beautiful little almost five-year-old girl, uh... uh, moved in with us and we have since formerly adopted her.

Uh, so I...

I have a, uh... uh...

I have a wife.

I have a 12-year-old, almost 13-year-old, uh, daughter.

Um, we have two dogs, two cats, and two chickens.

A house all of girls.

Scott: Okay.

When you look at -- you referenced the fact that, um, before you were able to get married, you were... were in a domestic partnership, and we know that you've been very active in the leadership of the LGBTQ caucus.

When you look at the span of change that's happened just over your own career, um, what's, uh, what is the next big frontier in the fight for equality and civil rights?

Susan: Um, I would s-- I would say the... the transgender... transgender issue, I think that is the next horizon.

I -- we were, we had our LGBT caucus meeting this morning, in fact, and that's what we were talking about.

Uh, looking at seats that are coming open across the state, um, that... that we think are viable, uh, for the caucus.

And... and that... that is one, um -- We... we don't have a transgender person yet serving in the state of California in the legislature.

So, we'd like to see about doing that.

Uh, and I also just think it's, it is, uh, as people are coming out from the pandemic, right.

It feels like everybody's coming out.

There has just been more and more, um, I think 2016 really motivated people to get involved more in... in their process.

So, a lot of younger city council members, uh, in smaller towns where they used to be pretty, uh, conservative, dominated older, you know, uh, Caucasian demographic, lot of young people of color.

And now they're trying to raise flags.

So, there was just a big issue in Kingsburg.

Uh, a young city council member, uh, you know, first Latina she's bi, she wanted to raise, uh... uh, the pride flag and they had like four hours of public debate where, you know, people came in on buses and said, "That's terrible.

We are never gonna do that."

Um, and then in... in Fresno, there was just a kind of an issue, would they raise a flag?

In Gilroy.

So, it is... it is also, I think just the, um, the normalizing of the LGBT process, uh, across the state, right?

You don't have to go to San Francisco or a big city in order to be who you are.

Uh, this last weekend, I went out to my kind of first post-pandemic thing, and it was a gay pride event in Lodi.

Uh Lodi'’s very first time.

And it was so great to see so many -- and I don't even know how people identify, but young, like, pre-teens and they were just -- people were having a great time wearing rainbow wigs and it just...

I saw another friend who she... she just turned 70 and... and she is not -- she's an ally, she's not an LGBT person, but she said, "This is the most normal I have felt in a year and it's gay!"

I'’m like, "Well great!

We're here for everybody."

Scott: So, you know, it... it -- that raises a really interesting point.

When you look at your district, it's this, um, unique combination of urban and rural.

And was it, uh, was it challenging as a member of the LGBTQ, uh, world, you know, and because of your orientation, was it difficult in... in order to kind of scale that height in the beginning?

Not just cause in the City of Stockton where you were councilmember, it was a more urban environment.

But a lot of us have assumptions that the... that the rural environments are a bit more challenging.

Susan: Um, I don't...

I don't think that's... that's false, but I'll go back to the first question you asked me about who, you know, who am I.

And... and... and part of it is that agricultural background.

Like, I...

I am an LGBT person.

I'm a person of color, but I also grew up on a farm, right?

I'm a farmer's daughter.

And so, my ability, I think, to be able to talk to people, um, and... and let people know that I'm working for them, that's, to me, that has been the biggest issue.

It is not how I identify it is... it is what I am -- how I am able to serve.

And I think that's what resonates mostly with people.

Scott: Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

Susan: That's the way it's supposed to be, right?

When I... when I first was gonna run and people like, just... "You cannot run as an out person."

Like, I'm not going to hide.

I'm certainly not going to lie.

I'm going to deny the person that I... that I love?

And then if I can't be honest and fight for myself, why would you think I could fight for you or be honest with you?

So, I just, I...

I was out from the beginning.

And it was an issue in the beginning.

The reporter -- a reporter, Dave Siders, now at POLITICO, great reporter.

But he did this whole thing where he followed me around as I was precinct walking, and then went back and knocked on their doors and said, "Do you care?

You care if she's gay?"

Um, and it -- the people didn't care that much and... and it... and it worked.

And... and from then I think then just being in relationship with people, showing up for people.

Um, it's -- My district, it is surprising, but there -- I...

I-- it is the most heavily Trump area that a Democrat represents in the state of California.

Scott: Well, that's really interesting because I looked at your statistics.

Every year that you have run, your share of the vote has gone up, if I'm not mistaken.

Susan: You are not mistaken.

Susan: I had a better share of the vote than Joe Biden.

Scott: And so, that kind of proves your thesis-- Scott: That kind of proves your thesis, that being in relationship with people and having exposure really does break down walls.

How do you take that and use that to address some of the bigger issues that we're facing as California?

Susan: In conversations, in stories, just the same thing we're doing right now.

Um, I passed the, uh, the End of Live Options Act here in California, right.

Which was a very big deal.

Death with dignity.

Um, and that took just so many conversations and being prepared to sit and listen to people and listen to people's pain.

And, you know, even if there are tears, um, to be able to really engage with the issues.

Uh, then there's other bills I've done, like, uh, like safe injection sites, overdose prevention.

Issues that... that aren't necessarily carried by somebody, uh, in the valley.

Um, but at the same time, I, you know, I am a champion on the Delta issues, on water issues.

I have been a champion, uh, on doing ag in a more... in a more smart way, understanding that we're a community in transition.

Um, and so how do we do it?

Not just cross our arms and say, "No, we're not going to make changes," but how do we do it in a way that brings people in.

Scott: You... you have a reputation of taking on really tough issues and that, no... no offense, but you are a "“workhorse"” much more than a "“show horse"” in that you're... you're gonna roll up your sleeves.

Uh, one of-- let's just take one of those issues, which is, um, the End of Life Options Act.

That is one where for decades has been, um, hotly debated.

What made you representing, you know, an agricultural urban community, what made you step in to something that not only was so complicated, but inspired such fierce emotions on both sides?

Susan: I mean, it just goes right back to that, to whom much is given much is expected.

Uh, I think it's an incredibly important policy issue.

I have, like I said, I was a hospice social worker.

I sat by so many people as they died.

Uh, I have personally cared for multiple people in my own life.

I...

I've done research on the topic, so I felt it was important.

And I felt like I could do it, right.

It was a -- I brought both my personal experience, my academic experience, my professional experience, um... And I...

I...

I just, you know, I don't mean to say that in an... in an egotistical way, but that... that package at that moment, uh, and it was the time that Brittany Maynard had gone to Oregon, um, to... to utilize the End of Life Option Act there.

And so, there was, you know, for everything there is a season and I...

I...

I didn't -- I -- it was my goal to do that bill, I thought maybe in 2022, and I would do that bill.

I didn't think we would be doing it in 2015.

Um, but politics, I get it.

It's like... it's like... it's like farming, right?

When... when there is an opportunity, when the sun is shining, when the conditions are going to be right, that's when you have to go.

And I was in a...

I was in a position to be able to do it.

Scott: When w -- when you think about people that were on the other side of the issue, a lot of their sensibilities are informed.

If you talk about medicine, you know, the Hippocratic Oath.

If you talk about for some, uh, and there's a... there is a divide within the faith community, you know, uh, life, you know, is sacred and we should not be in the business of helping people end life.

How did -- just give us just a small example of how you negotiated having those conversations.

Not necessarily to change minds, but to get people to understand where it is that you and the supporters were coming from.

Susan: Um, I think one is... is through listening so you're able to tell a story.

Um, one of the... one of the stories I told in my close, and it was a woman who, I mean, it was a very passionate issue.

I'm going to be on a panel about it today.

Uh, but she came in her health decline.

We could see her health declining every time she came to testify.

And she was a woman who was, uh... uh, you know, she said, "I...

I'm Republican."

She was a law enforcement.

She was a detective in the, uh, Los Angeles Police Department.

She became a, uh, a district attorney.

Um, she was a single mom and she, you know, had her daughter, had raised her through law school.

She said she would sit under her desk when she was, you know, going to college.

Um, and it was her wish -- and she had a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible cancer.

And she had tried, she had fought, she had done everything.

So, she said, "I, you know, I've done everything to live, but don't tell me how I'm going to die after I have done everything to live."

And she wanted her gift, as a mother for her 21 -year-old daughter, to be able to remember her the way her mother wanted her to remember.

Not to remember her in the last throes, uh, of what she knew was going to be a very painful and, uh, drowning, uh, kind of deaths.

And she wanted to be able to -- she's like... she like, "I've taken care of my daughter her whole life.

Why wouldn't I want to protect her here at the end?"

And so, I think stories like that when you can appeal to somebody as a parent, um, thinking about... about their own end of life.

Those stories, I think move people.

Um, the I -- and the idea of... of just sitting... because most people who have a strong aversion, they're... they're looking at somebody else's death, somebody's death they loved, uh... uh, fear for their own deaths.

So, we are, I mean, we're very much a death-defying, uh, culture, right?

We don't want to think about it.

I talked to someone the other day, I'm like, the Manifest Destiny, right?

I mean, we think we can build bridges.

We think we can live forever.

We'll go to the moon, right?

This idea of death being so final terrifies a lot of us.

But it is.

We're all going to die, right?

Well, none of us are getting out of this alive.

Uh, and again, for some, they want to be able to chart their own path, right?

And the majority of people who use it, um, you know, the... the... the fear tactic is it's going to be a, you know, "“You're going to kill off poor people or people of color.

"” Um, but for the most part, it is a, uh, a... a demographic of folks who have used... have been used to being in charge of their lives all their life.

And they want to be in charge, uh, up until the end.

And again, these are terminally ill people for which no cure is expected.

Scott: Right.

Let... let... let me... let me pivot from that issue and go to another one that just... just about as an attractable.

You have been against the tunnels, um, the tunnel project.

And the Delta and its environmental integrity and its future is something that confuses so much of us.

With so many great minds, um, at all levels of government and in the, uh, private sector, why can't California get its act together in coming up with a reasonable solution on this?

Susan: You know, it... you're right.

If it feels like the high -speed rail, right?

It feels like something that we all agree.

Like in theory, we understand how it's going to work, but it's the implementation and actually getting it done that's the very difficult part.

California... Somebody was asking me about mental health the other day, and why are things that much worse now?

And... and if we just, I mean, just think about this for a moment when we talk about water and it should be simple.

In 1975, uh, we could talk about mental health from this perspective too.

Uh, when we started deinstitutionalization and were we really started, Jerry Brown was going to come in office for his first time and think about these... these tunnels.

There were like 20-- 22 million people in California.

2021, there are 40 million people in California.

So just the -- we have just exploded in our population growth and that water system was not made for as many people as we have now, right?

It just was not.

Uh, and I think... and I think kind of like... like death, we thought we could farm anywhere if we could engineer it in the right kind of way, right?

We just put those tunnels down and... and... and... and take this water.

So... so a lot of the, I think, the premise that we can farm wherever we want, and the water is just going to come for as many people.

I think that is... that is just flawed.

Um, so as much as people don't want to have to think about fallowing land, we know that it's going to happen because we have so over-drafted, uh, our... our... our underground water basin.

Um, so it is... We'll get there.

I do believe we'll get there.

Uh, and we'll... we'll... we'll find a solution that's going to work for everybody.

But I think we had to get away from, "“Yes tunnels.

No tunnels,"” to something more in the middle, which I think this administration is moving in that direction.

Scott: I'm curious, you know, you... you have taken on these very heavy issues, um, complicated multi -year and all that.

Who inspired you in your early years as a role model with regards to how it is that you were going to go about doing public service?

Susan: I don'’t know that I had any huge -- I mean, just my... just my parents and my family and... and... and... and... and I...

I -- So, I think I have the ability-- and I think most of us do, if we... if we could just kind of tap into it -- to take... to take what we learned in one situation and apply it to another, right?

And that's, I think, what I've learned just in... in coming from a farming family and, uh... uh, kind of a scrappy family is you can make it work.

You just have to like... like I talked before, like the End of Life, you had to see the opportunity.

You had to see the opening, you had to see kind of how things are going to line up.

And then... and then make... make that move, right?

Scott: Is that type of optimism something you share on the other big issue, that's really under debate right now, particularly with the recall.

Which is that there are a number of people and increasingly on both sides who think California is virtually ungovernable and we don't have the ability to face our big problems.

How would you respond to those folks?

Susan: I...

I say I live in a world of abundance and I... and I wish we all did.

There is enough for all of us.

Um, I think when we start living in a world of scarcity, when we think that, you know, only some of us can... can get enough and others, you know, like... like justice is not a pie, right?

Just because you get a bigger piece doesn't mean I get a smaller piece.

We have -- there's enough for all of us.

Uh, and so I...

I certainly believe California, our... our economy, I mean, people say, "“Well, our economy.

Everyone's leaving.

"” The numbers report just came out.

Our economy is stronger than Texas, stronger than, uh, Florida, is stronger than all those places that... that folks say people are leaving to.

Uh, on the wildfire issues, uh, climate change is real, right?

And... and I think on the issues of our forest, again, like the issues of our mental health system, I think we, uh, there was a time when we locked people up because we didn't like the way they looked or who they loved.

There was a time when we cut old growth forest.

We figured out both of those things were wrong.

But I think this pendulum swung so far to the other side that we didn't take care of our forest and we have wildfires in the forest.

And we have wildfires on our streets of -- Scott: If you were charting-- well, that being said, if you were charting the agenda for your colleagues and, uh, for the administration over the next two to four years, what are the big pendulums, two or three, that you think really need to swing in the other direction in order to give everybody in California a better life and a better set of opportunities?

Susan: Uh, I think homelessness, especially as it relates to mental health issues, we have to be able to solve that.

The amount of people that we see on the streets, um, in... in really crisis states is unacceptable.

So, I think homelessness.

I think mental health and how we deal with it and how we are -- and I'm very, very, very excited that as the, uh... uh, the chairperson of the budget on Health and Human Services that we are making historic investments in the mental health system.

Uh, so I think we need to really focus on that.

Uh, and then the other thing we... we need to... we need to be able to build more housing and we need to develop a plan for our climate that makes us resilient.

So that's for wildfires that's for sea level rise.

That's for our levies.

That's for how we farm.

Scott: I'm curious, with all the fights that you've led and you participated in, what... what has been your proudest moment in terms of your work as a policy maker at the state level?

Susan: Well, if I just have one.

Um...

But one thing... one you think about things that leave somewhat of a... of a legacy.

Uh, and for me it's about people's lives, right?

I...

I did -- I got a billion-dollar solar bill for low-income housing.

I'll always like that.

But I... uh, there are two, uh, ChalleNGe Academies in the state of California.

It's a... it is a, uh, intervention program for kids who have either dropped out or at risk of dropping out of high school.

Uh, they're run with the National Guard, one of the both best evidence -based turned your life around programs.

Six months inpatient, and then six months, uh, aftercare.

Anyway, we got a third one in the state of California started in my district.

Uh, and so they have now around like, their eighth graduation class and I...

I just went and spoke at their, um, graduation.

So, I mean, that's thousands of kids who have had a second chance to turn their life around and go back to their families.

Uh, those, the kinds of things that I -- that you can visibly see you've made an impact on somebody's life.

Scott: That's wonderful.

And I think we'll leave it there.

Susan: Okay.

Scott: Thank you for joining us Senator.

Susan: Thank you.

Scott: And, uh, good luck in your work.

Susan: Thank you very much.

Scott: And that's our show.

Thanks to our guest and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪ ♪♪ Scott Syphax: All episodes of Studio Sacramento, along with other KVIE programs, are available to watch online at kvie.org/video.